Who has a slow turntable belt?

[BlackwatchPlaid]

Hi.

We have 2 rips on site of the same album.  BRJ 18 - John Scott - Lifes Ritual.  One by a8detective, and one by Retronic.  Both have different speeds.  I was wondering if anyone knew the correct tones that should be on this album so it can be determined who needs to adjust their belt.

[soundcloud]https://soundcloud.com/user-695896879/habitat-retronic1[/soundcloud]

[soundcloud]https://soundcloud.com/user-695896879/habitat-a8detective[/soundcloud]

Which one is correct?

[stackjackson]

Good question. Over the years I've run across this same issue so many times. Vinyl rips are as diverse as the equipment, each their own signature, which is interesting when you think about the history of vinyl listening.
Think about how different classic songs may have been heard at home vs. how they were broadcast on the radio, for example. Subtle differences in speed create a different listening experience, and in some cases a different song altogether.

[BlackwatchPlaid]

That's a real philosophical point of view, and an admirable one at that.  However, 33⅓ is 33⅓.  There is one correct speed.  I once remember a vinyl ripper on the hiresmusic blog had a slightly slow belt on his Bergmann Audio Magne turntable and this got pointed out to him and all ripping stopped for like 6 months so he could suss out the problem and get an overpriced replacement part for his overpriced turntable.  I should hope that sound reproduction is taken seriously and one would want their reproductions to be correct.

[stackjackson]

However, 33⅓ is 33⅓.  There is one correct speed.

Yep, and that's true as well

[Greta]

I'm not a tech one, but listening to the two tracks, the A8 one seems faster. So, if a belt is slow could be the Retro's one.
Or, is it possible A8 has a too fast belt? Haha...
We have techy guys onboard. We might wait their opinion.
Obviously, the answer could be the digital archive file from the company site, but BRJ 18 has not been released yet..

[zach]

Good question. Over the years I've run across this same issue so many times. Vinyl rips are as diverse as the equipment, each their own signature, which is interesting when you think about the history of vinyl listening. Subtle differences in speed create a different listening experience, and in some cases a different song altogether.

yeah i'm sure there's a huge chunk of records i've downloaded that were ripped with slightly off set-ups. doesn't really bother me, unless it's crazy different. to this day i won't ever play Delegation's "Deuces High" at the correct speed, cause i originally listened to a sped up version for years. now whenever i put it on the turntable i speed up the tempo, haha.

[Greta]

doesn't really bother me, unless it's crazy different

me neither

[Lord Thames]

The Life's Ritual album's been commercially released by Vocalion on CD - you should be able to compare and contrast with their version (I'd do it myself, but I think my copy's on loan to someone at the moment!)

[Retronic]

It’s possible mine is from the CD actually as I’ve ripped both LP and CD and didn’t check which it was. It was on my Walkman FLAC portable thingy and I would’ve wanted the best version so may have ripped the CD but labeled as the original LP.

[Dick Turpin]

Hi.

We have 2 rips on site of the same album.  BRJ 18 - John Scott - Lifes Ritual.  One by a8detective, and one by Retronic.  Both have different speeds.  I was wondering if anyone knew the correct tones that should be on this album so it can be determined who needs to adjust their belt.

Which one is correct?

That's an interesting point and I'm not sure that it might be a belt problem. Here is an interesting case with Keith Mansfield's New Dimension (Conroy BMLP 145) and the run times of the vinyl do not match those of the digital downloads. The Vinyl rip I have clearly matches the run times with that of the vinyl cover however the digital downloads do not and are of a different tempo. The number in red are the run times on discogs and there is a pic of the cover to prove the run times are correct, NB click thumbnail pic for full size. The run times in grey are the run times of the digital download version.



So the question is has the tempo been increased for later re-releases or was the vinyl tempo dropped from that of the original master tapes ?


For further comparison here is a screen shot of the first track Moogie Boogie with the digital download on the top and the vinyl rip on the bottom using Audacity, note the Vinyl ripper didn't do the levels correctly as it's clipped. Quite a difference in tempo can be clearly seen, NB again click for full size.

[stackjackson]

This is getting more interesting by the day...

[stackjackson]

Might be worth bringing this thread back to life…

Which speed is correct for this track "Streetside" from De Wolfe 3511?

Rip 1
mega.nz/#!gRQ2WaYR!7ULNtMdHTJeM6ebrLKkbAENxXZOwa62LZqK3YKU_fG8

Rip 2
mega.nz/#!QEAi3aKL!nojXogSsRC5nG_cI2nemUvTpswsZDe6jGu82ySyFfZI

UPDATE:

According to the LP track time (see below), Rip 1 is the winner, appears to be the correct speed (3:10). Rip 2 is slightly faster (3:03)

[Pegbars]

Indeed it should... I just encountered this issue again today.  When I was in broadcasting, station turntables were regularly calibrated using stroboscopic discs.  I recall at least one manufacturer, Technics, had strobe patterns molded into the edge of the turntable platter - and there was a neon light shining on it, so the speed could be continuously checked and adjusted as needed.

Here are some free strobe discs you can print out and use to test turntables.  Be sure to use the proper disc for the mains current in your country (50Hz or 60Hz).

https://www.vinylengine.com/strobe-discs.shtml