Author Topic: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?  (Read 4744 times)

kpmhill

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How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« on: October 19, 2023, 04:34:40 AM »
Personally, I listen quite a bit. Clearly, part of the library music experience is collecting the music, which may be more closely related to listening – or sometimes, perhaps less.

Here's a heretical admission for serious collectors: when I get new library music, I throw out all the tracks I don't think I'll enjoy actually listening to. Also, I've avoided all preoccupation with lossless or "high-definition" audio. 224-kbit AAC is my preferred format, always derived from lossless sources that I convert myself, for quality assurance. Probably at least equivalent to 320-kbit MP3. Of course, I don't transcode MP3s.

Clearly, these habits are a risk over the course of time, and for future evolution of my musical tastes. But they allow for just setting music on shuffle, and having something like a super-amazing radio station. My entire music collection fits on my iPhone, albeit requiring a 1-terabyte model.

Just wondering how others approach this…
« Last Edit: October 19, 2023, 06:14:42 AM by kpmhill »

nidostar

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Re: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2023, 10:46:20 AM »
I always enjoy these sort of exchanges in this forum. I find it interesting how other people approach their music collecting. It's important to acknowledge that there is no perfect approach despite what some purists would have you believe. And your approach works for you. I must admit to having focussed more on the collecting than the listening of late. Though I do try to have music playing, even in the background, whenever I can. And being a musician I listen closely to what is playing. But it's high time I went through my collection and got rid of the types of music that I don't enjoy listening to. For me that would be the more avant-garde, often French library music.

As for format, again, each to their own. For me there is a noticeable difference between lossy and lossless tracks. But that doesn't mean I don't listen to MP3s. On the contrary I would say the majority of my music collection is in MP3 format largely because my collection goes way back to when even 128kpbs was considered state-of-the-art! (Don't tell anyone but I even have some old mono recordings at 96kbps!!) And to be fair when do we really get the chance to sit down and listen to our music in such a way as to be able to analyse it to that degree? More often than not my music is having to compete with a multitude of "noises-off" including others moving about the house, the clock chiming or simply engine and road noise while in the car. Another reason for weeding out the tracks or albums that I am less interested in is that I would be hard pressed to fit my collection on my, or anyone else's, iPhone. It is currently taking up just over 2.5TB on an external drive. Though that does include rips of my vinyl and CD collection. The biggest question is when am I likely to take the plunge and start the clearout? To which I suppose the answer is "yes"!

Easy Listening Archive

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Re: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2023, 12:02:57 PM »
I have a BIG® Archive with about 133.000 songs in lossless. It is sorted like this:

1 - Non-Library Music - Vocal & Instrumental
2 - Non-Library Music - Vocal & Instrumental - Vinyl Rips
3 - Library Music
4 - Library Music - Vinyl Rips
5 - Library Music - Various Albums And Compilations
6 - Radio, TV Music & Movie Soundtracks

A lot of Music I like, a lot is hoarding!

And there will begin the problems: In my BIG® Archive there are also songs I do not like, but I have them because I try to collect some
Labels without gaps! When I listening here, a lot of music come up like drones, stingers, some jazz and unmelodic 90s 2000s stuff I really
not want to listen. Or some calm meditation music with lenght over 10 minutes.



In 2019, I decide to make an Easy listening compilation. In my Easy listening Archive there are Folders named Volume 1 - volume 124.
This Compilation contain Music I like very much. They contain Bossa, jazz, funk and happy electric analog polka music!

The same Collection is stored on my Smartphone and have a size of 95 GB.

This I prefer to listen. My BIG® Archive I only listen when I am searching some specific tracks.

This Easy listening collection is also in lossless and contain 6200 songs. (October 2023)

A lot of songs in my Easy listening album come here from LMT, I extracted it from various albums I download here in the last years.

I will describe my listening behaviour in short words:


90% I collect & hoard, 10 % I really listen regularly. I listen this Easy listening archive every day!

stackjackson

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Re: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2023, 04:28:46 AM »
Honestly, I hardly listen to anything. And I never have music playing in the background. Just silence. I drop scan whatever new comes my way (an old vinyl picking habit), catalogue it, add it to the ridiculous number of playlists I curate, and then move on.
| Stack |

Retronic

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Re: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2023, 08:24:23 AM »
I listen most days; working to and from work I listen to library music, always on random.  This habit comes form when I worked in a shop in the mid-90's.  We had a spin multi-CD player which would hold 5 x CDs.  I'd bag 1 or 2 for something soundtracky or loungy and the others would be colleagues choices (mostly Oasis), but what I learned form this was that every so often something would come on and I'd be digging it (thinking it was mine) and it turned out to be something I would have sniffed at.  This opened my ears and made me realise that if i play something deciding I wouldn't like it then I wouldn't, so to be more open minded.
Anyway I'm waffling; the point is I always shuffle because it brings new tracks my way.  I usually don't bother with anything beyond 1995 but this way I can discover hidden gems, whole LPs I hadn't properly listened to. 
I always expect to be surprised by library music and I am.




I have a Brennan downstairs with about 80,000 tracks including the best library so if people come over I play on random and like how it melds with jazz, soul and soundtrack stuff on there.
I used to have phases of about three months each on different genres and I still love those, particularly soul, jazz, latin but mostly play library these days.




Yohanes Salomo

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Re: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2023, 08:29:56 AM »
I have a BIG® Archive with about 133.000 songs in lossless. It is sorted like this:

1 - Non-Library Music - Vocal & Instrumental
2 - Non-Library Music - Vocal & Instrumental - Vinyl Rips
3 - Library Music
4 - Library Music - Vinyl Rips
5 - Library Music - Various Albums And Compilations
6 - Radio, TV Music & Movie Soundtracks

A lot of Music I like, a lot is hoarding!

And there will begin the problems: In my BIG® Archive there are also songs I do not like, but I have them because I try to collect some
Labels without gaps! When I listening here, a lot of music come up like drones, stingers, some jazz and unmelodic 90s 2000s stuff I really
not want to listen. Or some calm meditation music with lenght over 10 minutes.



In 2019, I decide to make an Easy listening compilation. In my Easy listening Archive there are Folders named Volume 1 - volume 124.
This Compilation contain Music I like very much. They contain Bossa, jazz, funk and happy electric analog polka music!

The same Collection is stored on my Smartphone and have a size of 95 GB.

This I prefer to listen. My BIG® Archive I only listen when I am searching some specific tracks.

This Easy listening collection is also in lossless and contain 6200 songs. (October 2023)

A lot of songs in my Easy listening album come here from LMT, I extracted it from various albums I download here in the last years.

I will describe my listening behaviour in short words:


90% I collect & hoard, 10 % I really listen regularly. I listen this Easy listening archive every day!
Uh, what is BIG® Archive? Please show me what it looks like. Thanks! ;D

Psyclon

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Re: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2023, 02:50:33 PM »
Every day! Actually, I learned to listen to music since I have my treasure chest of musical awesomeness. Also, my library music put down my "commercial music consumption" to maybe 5% or so.

Never before did I ditch PC and TV to go to bed with my headphones and my tablet (for the cover art^^) and listen. Since I can't move with the headphones, I kind of lie like a mummy and I get into a tunnel where I concentrate on everything. Realizing a sudden shaker on the left channel or when a bass guitar could not be pulled properly and has that one note being off a bit is just priceless.

I use MP3 V0. That is 256-320 kBit/s with no lowpass filter (even it filters at about 20kHz) as a standard. MP3s are hyper compatible and thus don't ever need to transcoded (unlike AAC which can't be read by everything due to licensing problems - Audacity for example can't without a more-or-less shady plugin and my video editor from MAGIX wants a 4€ codec package) and it's a perfectly fine HiFi format. I think I said enough about that topic in the past. It also keeps my collection very reasonable in size despite a total of 12 TByte of disk space, but as digital native, I have everything media in files instead of media.

The music I collect is hand-selected. Each track is there because it is good. Sometimes, I pull one track out of 5 disks, but if it does not click, it simply does not.

When it comes to managing my files, it's simple: I set out a few rules.

* Two folders


One folder contains all my music where I know the release year (with ± 1 year difference allowed) and the other where I can confirm they are from the 1980s or 1990s.

* Instrumental tracks and movie soundtracks are allowed

It's not all library that I have but also instrumental music that I buy from Quboz. The great Harold Faltermeyer sountracks of "Fletch Lives" and Eric Serra's awesomeness from "Nikita" or "Subway" are equally a part like instrumental of "Zo vrolijk" by Hermann van Veen that I search for since my teacher had it in school in 1998..

* Important tags

Certain things about my files are more important than others. But to keep data integrity, I need a certain threshold. No "Track04" like back then (I still get shivers from the CDs a friend brought over that had 500 tracks named "TITLE_1_02.MP3" and you didn't know what that is. Or from who. Let alone cover arts...).

NAME = The title of the track is not necessary if I have at least the album name.
INTERPRET/COMPOSER= Not important if I have the album and the library (with all the aliasses around it's a bit useless anyways)
LABEL and ALBUM = Very important. Because if I lack the name of the track and/or composer I can still call it "ESL PRODUCTION".
YEAR OF RELASE = This is also important, but I allow one year off. That comes from two things. Sometimes, you don't have a release year like the ATMOSPHERE LPs and I need to make an educated guess, like I know e.g. #15 is from 1985 but #23 is unknown, I put 1987, as they started to move over to CD in 1987. That includes 1986 - a possible year as well. Sometimes, they don't even know when they released their music:


COVER ART = This is a big part of the enjoyment to me. The music and the artwork are both part of a very certain era and should go together. Often I look on Youtube, Spotify, Amazon (they have had high-res scans of the KOKA CDs) eBay and the likes for different photos. E.g. many disks on Discogs have the licensing sticker on them (mostly SONOTON) while the others don't have that. I am also aware of the re-issues that I need to rule out.


Sometimes it's technically right, but then not, like the OGM reissues...



Usually, with all the information, I take the information that is both true but can also be "a bit wrong", e.g. I used to have the BOOSEY AND HAWKES "SYNTHESIZER" tracks labelled as the CAVENDISH CD they are from ("We have the Technology") until I learned about the re-issue and corrected that information. It irks me somewhat, but refining my collection to the latest knewn data to me.

With these tags in place, they finally find their place on my disks and devices (which I cross-backup every so often).

The reason why I went with these tags is simple. Sometimes, you have a MediaPlayer that is customizable and plays all the information you want or your OS' file program such as the Finder or Explorer. One of such players is good ol' Winamp:



But then your car stereo, your HiFi or your smartTV might not and omit some tags. Mostly for my SAMSUNG TV I went for the "LABEL - ALBUM" string:
(The built-in player of the SAMSUNG TVs sometimes won't read the cover art, as seen with "Yellow Danger" in the corner. Don't know, maybe the newer models do not bitch around like that :D)

Owning a collection of such a music complete with all the tags is just such a satisfaction and joy :)


Don't tell anyone but I even have some old mono recordings at 96kbps!!

Don't forget that a mono @ 96 kBit/s equals to a stereo @ 192 kBit/s as it's half of the channels and thus can be halved compared to stereo audio. So despite it being a mixdown, it might sound very good (as MP3 reaches it's perceived transparency at 192 kBit/s as many ABX listening tests showed. Audacity uses 192 kBit/s as default by the way)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 03:03:31 PM by Psyclon »

nidostar

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Re: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2023, 03:46:00 PM »
Don't tell anyone but I even have some old mono recordings at 96kbps!!

Don't forget that a mono @ 96 kBit/s equals to a stereo @ 192 kBit/s as it's half of the channels and thus can be halved compared to stereo audio. So despite it being a mixdown, it might sound very good (as MP3 reaches it's perceived transparency at 192 kBit/s as many ABX listening tests showed. Audacity uses 192 kBit/s as default by the way)
A highly interesting and detailed post as we've come to expect from you Psyclon. Thanks also for your endorsement re the 96kbps. Personally I have no problem with mono lossy at that rate though I do notice the difference in the upper register when compared with FLAC recordings but not enough to spoil the listening experience. But I must admit to being totally bemused by the recent fad to rip at 24-bit/96khz. Overkill or what?!!

Psyclon

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Re: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2023, 05:55:27 PM »
And that, Nidostar, is exactly the perfect statement! MP3 IS lossy, it CHANGES the music. But really not enough to matter. The vast majority of music happens in the lower and middle frequencies. And even if, the MP3 encoder either gives the full 320 kBit/s which is enough to replicate sound in a satisfying matter - or it can't (SFB21 problem) but then those frequencies are masked anyways and thus don't need to be perfect as, well, these high-hats are hidden from lower frequencies' instruments. Why spending ridiculous amounts of bitrate for a barely audible crash cymbal when it's masked by a louder synthesizer? It's kind of a self-solving problem. And: Even if it make the MP3 encoder choke a bit - those frequencies are not utter garbage or destroyed, they are just a bit less in fidelity. AAC, OPUS and all those are actually just more efficient in bitrate and rule out some of the problems.

It is like "acoustic aliasing" - you can hear an extremely subtle change at very low noises. The last bits of a fade-out suffer as much as the little noises of an orchestra (e.g. when the players move on their chair). You can still hear the person move and the chair creaking - but maybe a breather of the player might get removed. Why would anyone be so obsessed with that being missing? When people say it loses "air" or it sounds less "spacious" - absolutely right. However, it is just a very tiny bit that gets removed. For a trade-off of about 75% of the bitrate/space compared to WAV and about 30-50% to a FLAC that is absolutely amazing. I also do understand when people want to keep their audio information though.

About the 24-bit recordings, yep, it is just strange... Especially if you consider the following: Most more recent (1970+) records are digitally recorded. (A great channel by the way!) Which means many times the master is actually 16-bit digital and not just 13-bit tape. You probably remember the "DDD" on many LPs from the 80s. So the master is 16-bit digital, then turns analog on the LP. Then there is wear of the medium. And then someone takes probably a jack-to-jack analog cable. That is... loss upon loss upon loss of a - if lucky - 16-bit stream that actually turned 13-bit when it came out of the pressing facility. Even if you use digital audio from your playback device to your PC, you still have lost information/added noise on the way, so by sheer logic it's always <13-bit...

I am not here to always put fuel into the fire of the same thing. I am just baffled how ignorant many vinyl freaks are, and how obsessed they are over the wrong statements and I think it's just about time to spread the truth as LMT is also Google-indexed and god knows how might stumble over this information and learns something.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 05:57:33 PM by Psyclon »

Bronic

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Re: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2023, 01:02:56 AM »
Listening to library music is quite the patience test. Most of it is not great despite being tremendously competent music-making. I listen everything at random and pick the best of the bunch.

But I found out that library music is not good at being background music and demands active listening. It's impossible to dedicate full attention to a bunch of non-stellar tracks.

So I made the a foobar2000 config that removes all the high-frequencies and muffles the sound to death so my brain is not so activated by it when I'm doing something else. If the song is good enough to survive this it's promoted to the good player and maybe added to the 'best of' list.

Then when I'm more relaxed I listen to what I have selected as intended.

kpmhill

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Re: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2023, 08:04:12 AM »
  • The music I collect is hand-selected. Each track is there because it is good
  • …a total of 12 TByte of disk space

I think 8MB/track would be reasonable for the formats you use. By my math, 12TB would give you about 1.5 million tracks. Are you archiving some other things alongside that?

EDIT: I just saw your sig: "My treasure chest: 1,098 tracks." At 8MB/track, that would be about 9GB. I guess "total of 12 TByte" is just your entire computer set-up. I could actually imagine ambitious completists with lossless/high-def archives, getting to 12TB…
« Last Edit: October 22, 2023, 08:21:06 AM by kpmhill »

snowydive

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Re: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2023, 09:11:36 PM »
I don't take the organisation/categorisation of my library tracks very seriously, so I have probably a dozen or so albums/playlists where I either like most/all of an album or made an 'album' based on tracks from a particular show. I listen to these now and again, but my primary interest is instrumental soundtracks/scores, so most of these are a bit like just listening to a score. In fact, given how much library music is released commercially, there can often be little difference between it and just some regular instrumental/concept album. I just like all that stuff as one big pile.

All the rest is just a big pile of 'stuff' I've found at various library sites. I rarely listen to this pile, tbh, but once I've heard a track I like, deleting it is out of the question. ~800 tracks fall into this category. Although I use Audio Network once a year for some personal video content, so I have a decent cache of tracks of theirs I like to sift through when I need something.

Like a previous poster, I definitely don't treat original albums as sacrosanct in any way. I obviously won't delete my downloaded/ripped originals, but for my mp3s I only keep what I like. Often it will be one single track from an album that's otherwise just mush. Basically I'm the exact opposite of an 'album collector'. Tagging doesn't matter much - just album, artist (or just library name) and some sort of cover art if easily available - enough to make tracks look half presentable on a desktop widget I have. Couldn't care less about the other metadata (year/genre.. etc.. etc)

99% of my collection is mid 00s onwards - heard in DVDs and shows from the last 20 years or so. Hence I'm not concerned with vinyl and older stuff - I just have one or two tracks from that era (the Monty Python Holy Grail 'Homeward Bound' track, for example).

I tend to focus on music I hear in any sort of media - YouTube, short films, TV, films, songs playing in a restaurant, etc, which partly explains why library music often comes in. Apart from that and film/TV scores, I have an equally chaotic collection of general songs/stuff, and much more organised collections from my favourite four or five mainstream artists.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2023, 09:40:48 PM by snowydive »

WIILKAS

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Re: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2023, 08:38:10 PM »
Honestly, I don't have the patience to file in a specific order, what I usually do is add a cover image, I have detected that sometimes I have some music on repeat and I delete them when I have time, I have listened to 90% of my entire library When I hear something that doesn't catch my attention, I jump to the next music, I rarely delete something that I really don't like or I'm completely indifferent to.

There are songs that I really like and I repeat them constantly and there are others that I have probably only listened to once or twice, but practically 7 days a week I am listening to my library in the moments that I am free and I can listen to them without distractions .

GradyTate

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Re: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2023, 01:49:36 PM »
I likely have no hope of ever listening to my whole collection, although I probably average at least a few hours a day.  I use Roon, which has made organizing and consuming my collection a lot easier and more enjoyable.

oiche

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Re: How much do people really *listen* to their library collection?
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2023, 07:52:58 PM »
I don't DL much, as I never listen to digital. Digital files I only use for reference usually or previewing vinyl purchases. Having said that, I have TBs of stuff that Ill never delete! I work 50% from home so listen to library on vinyl a lot. The record room is my office  :D