What to do with reissues?

[stackjackson]

Reposting this here to start the conversation...

First of all, I don't think the LMT community has ever thought of itself as a "piracy sharing website" but more a gathering of folks from all over the globe who love collecting, listening, and talking about this strange world of library music.
Second, I would hope that none of us are "elitists" here, though having worked in used record stores most of my early life, I certainly know the type.

When LMT started, this wasn't much of an issue, since at the time there were really no legitimate releases or reissues of this stuff. The situation has rapidly changed and we have to decide how best to adjust.
Some members are very sensitive about this, others could care less.

So let's take this issue up here in the General Discussion section and let everyone voice their viewpoint, pro or con. It's all good.

[BlackwatchPlaid]

When it comes to uploading digital intellectual property, it is considered piracy.  It doesn't matter if there isn't any digital version for sale.  It doesn't matter if the only vinyl copies are out of print.  In the eyes of the law, it is piracy, plain and simple.  This is a piracy website.  Any rationalizations involving moral arguments of availability or lack thereof are just that, moral self-licensing.  It is something you tell yourself and others to make yourself feel like you are above the law in some fashion.  You need to understand these facts when you are engaged in the sort of behaviors people like us engage in.  I have seen countless times where a few well-known vinyl rippers are ripping OOP albums and getting their links taken down and even their blogs destroyed because they don't own the IP.  The labels would rather the music die and not exist in any form than allow it to fall into fair-use. 

Knowing these facts and, therefore, your role in participating in an environment of piracy as we are, arguments about uploading or not uploading some content but not other content because of some feeling that it is less illegal is just virtue signalling.

[Greta]

This is what the LMT team was thinking about the subject.
The forum is open and free, and has no strict rules, attempting to regain the spirit of the very first Retro's LMT, back in 2012.
However, LMT policy would be to support and encourage the independent labels that are publishing reissues, and consequently discourage those shares here.
These label's work means a lot, they bring back to light some lost or otherwise unobtainable gems.

[roope]

Sure it's all some kind of piratism, but still sharing different files can cause different things, and every share can be considered case by case.

I think not sharing the fresh reissues by small labels is morally an important guideline. It's really not easy to run a small label and get the records moving, so they may need support.

Then stuff like Leonardi catalogue - I'm very happy to download any of these for free, but I'm a bit worried if there may be trouble for the forum for shares like that. I'm also fine to listen these for free in Spotify although I hate the ads. I guess it's not a problem if someone sometimes shares some of these,  but it would feel hazardous to for example collect the full catalogue here and offer it for free openly next to the digital sales online.

[BlackwatchPlaid]

I guess it's not a problem if someone sometimes shares some of these,  but it would feel hazardous to for example collect the full catalogue here and offer it for free openly next to the digital sales online.

Well, this is the head of the nail.  In the past, I had shared on closed forums.  This was a way for friends to collaborate and collect amongst themselves in a safe environment.  I had a few blogs back in the 2007-2009 rapidshare boom, but hard lessons were learned back then when the blogocalypse made the industry's presence very apparent.  Getting threatening personal messages from record execs on your social media page will go pretty far to push you underground.  Still to this day I will only participate in private torrent sites.  There is safety in closed doors.  I can understand the idea that you want people to find you who are just starting down the path, but being open will attract the wrong sort of attention, eventually.  If I were to have ideas about such a setup, there would be two forums, one facing the public that the newbies can find which is mostly just a discussion and vetting board, where people can join and then get invited to the closed board when they get known better by the crowd.  The other closed board is where the sharing takes place, in a closed loop where it's not likely to get copied to 100 other forums and get to a point where sales could possibly be affected.

[stackjackson]

...If I were to have ideas about such a setup, there would be two forums, one facing the public that the newbies can find which is mostly just a discussion and vetting board, where people can join and then get invited to the closed board when they get known better by the crowd.  The other closed board is where the sharing takes place, in a closed loop where it's not likely to get copied to 100 other forums and get to a point where sales could possibly be affected.

We did this split-board approach in v3 or v4, can't remember precisely. It worked for a bit, until some members on the public side got word of it and then the whole problem of "membership" came up, weeding users, rules and restrictions, etc. The board went down... mysteriously.

[Retronic]

My wanting to avoid currently commercial available stuff was coming from a place of respect really.  Spoke released a 7" ep of RKM tracks, which I bought.  I didn't share it because they are a small label keeping the genre alive.   I wanted more people to buy the record.  After a while when it's been on sale ages I might feel differently.   The majority of what we are sharing is hard to find and not available to download or buy in any format.  It's just a personal choice for me and I am happy to go with the majority on it; not feeling massively strongly about it.  I guess initially I wanted to bring as little negative attention as possible.   

[owlglass]

Not sharing smaller labels' reissues sounds very reasonable to me.

Allow me to admit, though, that as I have no interest in vinyl at all and prefer to buy lossless downloads, I'm regularly frustrated with vinyl-only reissues and can't say that I don't appreciate shares of such releases from those who have gone to the trouble of ripping them.

Hopefully, the vinyl-only trend will pass at some point and make way for HD digital reissues.

[Zeenix]

If you can't buy the Leonardi Files because you don't have the money......but also not sharing their files for free.....then it's ok with me!

[Col Wolfe]

My wanting to avoid currently commercial available stuff was coming from a place of respect really.  Spoke released a 7" ep of RKM tracks, which I bought.  I didn't share it because they are a small label keeping the genre alive.   I wanted more people to buy the record.  After a while when it's been on sale ages I might feel differently.   The majority of what we are sharing is hard to find and not available to download or buy in any format.  It's just a personal choice for me and I am happy to go with the majority on it; not feeling massively strongly about it.  I guess initially I wanted to bring as little negative attention as possible.

Thank you for buying the RKM EP!

I would be very grateful to other vinyl buying LMT members if they bought this release as it would help fund the manufacturing of sleeves to our next fully licensed library EP, which is at the pressing plant right now!

[Col Wolfe]

Not sharing smaller labels' reissues sounds very reasonable to me.

Allow me to admit, though, that as I have no interest in vinyl at all and prefer to buy lossless downloads, I'm regularly frustrated with vinyl-only reissues and can't say that I don't appreciate shares of such releases from those who have gone to the trouble of ripping them.

Hopefully, the vinyl-only trend will pass at some point and make way for HD digital reissues.

We’ve tried to licence digital downloads too but in our experience companies don’t like to licence out to small independents something they can do relatively hassle-free themselves.  This doesn’t just relate to library houses but all major labels/companies too.

[owlglass]

Not sharing smaller labels' reissues sounds very reasonable to me.

Allow me to admit, though, that as I have no interest in vinyl at all and prefer to buy lossless downloads, I'm regularly frustrated with vinyl-only reissues and can't say that I don't appreciate shares of such releases from those who have gone to the trouble of ripping them.

Hopefully, the vinyl-only trend will pass at some point and make way for HD digital reissues.

We’ve tried to licence digital downloads too but in our experience companies don’t like to licence out to small independents something they can do relatively hassle-free themselves.  This doesn’t just relate to library houses but all major labels/companies too.

I see. Would it be the same with CD releases?

[Col Wolfe]

Not sharing smaller labels' reissues sounds very reasonable to me.

Allow me to admit, though, that as I have no interest in vinyl at all and prefer to buy lossless downloads, I'm regularly frustrated with vinyl-only reissues and can't say that I don't appreciate shares of such releases from those who have gone to the trouble of ripping them.

Hopefully, the vinyl-only trend will pass at some point and make way for HD digital reissues.

We’ve tried to licence digital downloads too but in our experience companies don’t like to licence out to small independents something they can do relatively hassle-free themselves.  This doesn’t just relate to library houses but all major labels/companies too.

I see. Would it be the same with CD releases?

We can licence the CD format OK but who wants them?  Hard format fans generally opt for vinyl these days.

[owlglass]

We can licence the CD format OK but who wants them?  Hard format fans generally opt for vinyl these days.

With no digital download option, I, for one, would much prefer CDs over vinyl. Ripping is quick and easy, they're smaller, and often cheaper. With vinyl you need relatively expensive equipment – a proper turntable and cartridge – just to get the content off the medium.

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