Author Topic: [Cenacolo] - M 727 - Amedeo Tommasi - Grandangolo (1981)  (Read 2924 times)

Greta

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[Cenacolo] - M 727 - Amedeo Tommasi - Grandangolo (1981)
« on: November 24, 2022, 10:59:59 PM »
Would love to get hold of this beauty in flac.

Does anybody have it handy?

Cheers.

https://www.discogs.com/it/release/1012232-Amedeo-Tommasi-Grandangolo
G.

Greta

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Re: [Cenacolo] - M 727 - Amedeo Tommasi - Grandangolo (1981)
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2022, 09:02:59 AM »
I just found a flac of this!

But please, some of you expert guys, can you tell me if these are true flacs?

The record is very quiet, with no rhythmics, and I don't know if some of the spectrals are low for this reason or not.

Thanks, and enjoy!

pixeldrain.com/u/Q8Wo4Wts
G.

likedeeler

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Re: [Cenacolo] - M 727 - Amedeo Tommasi - Grandangolo (1981)
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2022, 01:26:36 PM »
...
The record is very quiet, with no rhythmics, and I don't know if some of the spectrals are low for this reason or not.
...

Hi Greta, files are 100% genuine. An outstanding, high-quality rip of a very interesting record, no less. It sounds great on my stereo. Cheers for this!

Here's a tip how to determine that everything is proper: convert the files to 320 kbit/s MP3 -- preferrably with the latest LAME encoder v3.100 -- and compare spectrals (maximise both windows and switch between them). Pay attention to the high-frequency noise. It is clear that the content of these FLAC files cannot have been subjected to MP3 compression.

Explanation: Noise has the largest information content ("entropy") of all sounds. The higher the frequency of that noise, the higher is the amount of information contained in it, and the larger is the amount of bits necessary to encode it. Therefore, the first thing lossy compressors need to do in order to reduce the file size (= information content) is mangle the high-frequency noise, or discard it entirely. Thus, if the spectral display of the FLAC file shows high-frequency noise that its 320 kbit/s MP3 conversion does not contain, the FLAC cannot be the result of a transcoding from MP3.

PS >> I've also checked it with Ogg Vorbis now at 500 kbit/s (the maximum). Even the Vorbis encoder cannot capture all of the noise. Fidelity is of course a lot better than with MP3. Depending on the sonic properties of the music, in many cases an Ogg Vorbis file compressed at 500 kbit/s is on a par with lossless regarding sound quality. If I switch between the FLAC and the Ogg of "Allarme nucleare", for example, only the very highest noise shows a difference. The spectral representation of the actual music is identical (at least to the extent that Spek can display it), which is not the case for MP3.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 06:55:21 PM by likedeeler »

nidostar

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Re: [Cenacolo] - M 727 - Amedeo Tommasi - Grandangolo (1981)
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2022, 02:13:31 PM »
Here's a tip how to determine that everything is proper: convert the files to 320 kbit/s MP3 -- preferrably with the latest LAME encoder v3.100 -- and compare spectrals (maximise both windows and switch between them). Pay attention to the high-frequency noise. It is clear that the content of these FLAC files cannot have been subjected to MP3 compression.

PS >> I've also checked it with Ogg Vorbis now at 500 kbit/s (the maximum). Even the Vorbis encoder cannot capture all of the noise. Fidelity is of course a lot better than with MP3. Depending on the sonic properties of the music, in many cases an Ogg Vorbis file compressed at 500 kbit/s is on a par with lossless regarding sound quality. If I switch between the FLAC and the Ogg of "Allarme nucleare", for example, only the very highest noise shows a difference. The spectral representation of the actual music is identical (at least to the extent that Spek can display it), which is not the case for MP3.

Thanks for this tip likedeeler. I'd been trying to find a way with Audacity to verify if a FLAC is genuine and had so far failed! I'll certainly give this a try.

Greta

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Re: [Cenacolo] - M 727 - Amedeo Tommasi - Grandangolo (1981)
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2022, 09:32:48 PM »
Thank you very much for the good news likedeeler.
It was a long time I was looking for a flac copy of this record.
I still didn't burn a cd of this one and had a listen on my home stereo, so I was wondering if it was worth do it.

I was wondering why the higher frequencies are not represented as the actual music ones but only as "noise".
Shouldn't the "visible/colored" graphics in Spek go higher that that in a genuine flac? Or this low spectrals only happen with "low dynamics" music?
Sorry if I bother, but I'm still trying to understand.

I will try to follow your suggestions to determine authenticity in the future (but if I fail I'll take the liberty of pm you...lol).


ps   you've checked al the tracks right? cause the matter was regarding only few tracks in my thoughts
« Last Edit: December 02, 2022, 10:28:16 PM by Greta »
G.

likedeeler

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Re: [Cenacolo] - M 727 - Amedeo Tommasi - Grandangolo (1981)
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2022, 03:39:18 PM »
Hi Greta, I did check every track.

To your questions about frequencies:

The presence of higher frequencies (or any frequencies really) in the rip depends on various factors. One is the quality of the ripping setup, but another one is of course the presence of these frequencies in the original recording and the music itself.

We have to distinguish two independent aspects here:

(1) Whether a rip is genuine and not transcoded from a lossy source.
(2) Whether the rip is actually "good", meaning that it has a good sound.

The problem to solve here was (1), and the answer is conclusive: the rip cannot be the result of a transcoding from an MP3 file or even an Ogg Vorbis file because it contains high-frequency noise that these encoders discard, at least partially.

Regarding aspect (2), this can only be decided by listening to the rip on a capable stereo system. It would of course be optimal if we could also compare it to the sound of the original recording, but this will rarely be an option.

If very high frequencies (except noise) are not present in the spectral analysis of a track this may be caused by their not being present in the original recording. It does not have to mean -- although it can mean -- that the recording (or the rip) was bad. It can simply be the case that the music itself did not contain these frequencies in the first place. I would encourage you to take a classical piano recording (solo piano), Erik Satie for example, and look at the spectrals. You may be surprised.

And, yes, the loudness (dynamics) of the recorded sound also plays a role for the visual appearance of the spectral analysis, as the colours in Spek encode the loudness of frequencies.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2023, 02:04:46 PM by likedeeler »