Intermezzi Music Library

[Big Archive]

BWP, please do not remember me to this drama. I download it too.....And I also got into this trap! But why they must transcode those rare, expensive and also wonderful albums, why?

I was sad when I saw this......

[niknak]

Sonor Music Editions, Lorenzo, firstly - welcome.

Secondly, is it possible for you to obtain the linage/process of the person/company who remastered these tracks for you? it does look like something got broken along the way. Perhaps we can help you get this fixed/resolved?

Just to add, the lossless master files used to generate the other formats provided to one particular digital play out service have the same issue but do flag as true lossless in Lossless Audio Checker but this is because of how the backend uses high noise shaping before play out. Its still missing most of the information above 16k but is masked by a fat ugly wideband noise profile on top which tricks LAC into thinking there's audio data where there isn't anything but noise.

[Sonor Music Editions]

Hi there all, I really don't know how this problem occurred guys. The stuff has been worked and delivered on lossless quality .wav files, therefore there are no mistakes from SONOR side.

I'll investigate about this matter.

[Sonor Music Editions]

But anyway, about the music of I MARC 4 and all the Library stuff currently represented in the US territory by APM through Intermezzi label, everything has been transfered from the original tapes (when possible) and then digitally and professionally remastered. I invite you to get the music through digital stores or Spotify / SoundCloud channels and have a listen with your ears:

https://open.spotify.com/user/bastard_grooves/playlist/3M5FKJggRE2NocgXE0LzRV?si=5eKgtr-ERD2WrZQxwdDJGA
https://soundcloud.com/armagideon-times/sets/sonor-music-editions-library

First of all, downloading anything through spotify or soundcloud is going to result in a lossy file.  Soundcloud transcodes your uploads to 128kbps MP3.  Spotify transcodes your uploads to ogg vorbis 320kbps. 

The files represented by the fourier transform graphs generated in Adobe Audition in this thread were downloaded directly from apmmusic.com in 16bit/48kHz .wav format.  There was no transcoding done, they were simply losslessly compressed using the FLAC codec. The result shows a signature pattern usually seen in lossy MPEG psychoacoustic filtering, a hard lowpass cutoff filter of 16kHz.  I did not phony up this graph.  This is the exact spectrum fourier transform graph from MEZ_MEZ_0005_00101_Paperino_Soldato_APM.wav downloaded directly from apmmusic.com/albums/MEZ-0005



^^ You can click the image for a full size graph.

Being a representative of the results of this "work", maybe you can explain why this happened.  Did you involve a lossy step in the remastering process?  Was there ever a .mp3 file involved in any step along the way?  If so, do you need a refresher course in what lossy music is and what MPEG codecs do to frequencies and lossless audio and why you shouldn't use .mp3 files as source material?

Listening with your ears is a great thing to promote people do, but it is also a great diversion tactic to distract from your mistakes.


EDIT: Just for shits and giggles, I took you up on your suggestion and went to the soundcloud link you provided.  Here is the result.

General
Complete name                            : Bruno Battisti D'Amario - 'TRASPARENZE' - 1973 dreamy BOSSA & LOUNGE Italian Library SCORE_325521044 - Armagideon Times.mp3
Format                                   : MPEG Audio
File size                                : 9.96 MiB
Duration                                 : 10 min 52 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 128 kb/s
Writing library                          : LAME3.99r

Audio
Format                                   : MPEG Audio
Format version                           : Version 1
Format profile                           : Layer 3
Format settings                          : Joint stereo / MS Stereo
Duration                                 : 10 min 52 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 kHz
Frame rate                               : 38.281 FPS (1152 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 9.96 MiB (100%)
Writing library                          : LAME3.99r
Encoding settings                        : -m j -V 4 -q 3 -lowpass 17 -b 128

^^ Again, click the image for full resolution.

SoundCloud clips are already uploaded in 320kbps mp3s, you maybe should check our Bandcamp page: https://sonormusiceditions.bandcamp.com/

There shouldn't be transcodes for simple streaming.

Anyway, quoting shits and giggles you're talking about, it's IMPOSSIBLE that a mp3 has been used as source. Do you understand this? They wouldn't pass on the system, very easy...

[Big Archive]

@Sonor Music Editions:

So how you explain the frequencies cutoff at 16 khz? I never seen this in real lossless files! And I MUST know that: I also rip LP's at home sometimes and this never came across to me.
We all are humans, so sometimes mistakes can happen...

[Sonor Music Editions]

@Sonor Music Editions:

So how you explain the frequencies cutoff at 16 khz? I never seen this in real lossless files! And I MUST know that: I also rip LP's at home sometimes and this never came across to me.
We all are humans, so sometimes mistakes can happen...

I really don't know man, I'm investigating about this.

[Big Archive]

Thank you for do this. You should know: I am only a little music collector, but the stuff I collect I always collect in real lossless.

[BlackwatchPlaid]

SoundCloud clips are already uploaded in 320kbps mp3s, you maybe should check our Bandcamp page: https://sonormusiceditions.bandcamp.com/

There shouldn't be transcodes for simple streaming.

Anyway, quoting shits and giggles you're talking about, it's IMPOSSIBLE that a mp3 has been used as source. Do you understand this? They wouldn't pass on the system, very easy...

You haven't answered any of my concerns.  If it's IMPOSSIBLE an mp3 has been used as a source, then it's IMPOSSIBLE that the final .wav file would look the way it does.  But here we are, without explanations.  I have nothing else to go on.  At some point it WAS transcoded and the frequencies above 16kHz were FOREVER thrown away.  Again, I have nothing else to go on besides the final file APM is distributing and your word it is not transcoded.  The chasm between those two things is as of yet unexplained.

There shouldn't be transcodes for simple streaming.

You obviously have no idea how streaming works, do you?

Any company that is streaming digital files is going to transcode their music down to a lossy format for bandwidth concerns.  It isn't cost effective otherwise.

Your bandcamp page has a few problems.  First of all, they all say SOLD OUT.  How in the world you can sell out of a digital file that never actually leaves your hard drives is beyond me.  Second, why in the world would I purchase a transcoded file just to prove my point?  The burden of proof is on you, not me.

You came here with one reason, it is obvious.  To confront these nasty forum users sharing your music and badmouthing your work.  If you want to achieve your goals here, you really need to have something to back up why we shouldn't badmouth your work.  The technical proof is on our side, and the only thing you have come back with is a loud TRUST ME, THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN, when the evidence of it happening is on display for the world to see.  The waveforms and the fourier transform spectrum graphs don't lie.  Download the files yourself from apmmusic.com and try it yourself.  Adobe Audition is the professional paid application you can use (they offer a 7-day free trial, btw), free options are Audacity (excellent very widely acclaimed application) and Spek.  The last one's not quite so good, but it still gets the point across.



BTW, for comparison's purposes, here is what an un-transcoded file should look like.

This is from a relatively LOW fidelity source file, it is the track Kenny Graham - The Square Squad from the 1962 KPM album KPM LP 21 - KPM 114A-118B and the source is an old 78rpm shellac record.  So for all intents and purposes should look WORSE than your final files, but it doesn't:

[Sonor Music Editions]

@BlackwatchPlaid

I'm sorry I don't know how audio streaming works. I'm record producer and music publisher, I'm not a sound engineer and I don't know how transcoding works through digital services. This is not my job, as label we have more than one sound engineer that work with us.

But, you can be sure that I'm gonna get to the bottom of this. Trust me.

[niknak]

Here is a zoomed close up of the beginning top edge of the track Sambaquarta to show your engineers, you can clearly see a bunch of missing data, If they use any programs that tell you that their lossless files are definitely lossless - don't trust them until you see a Spectrograph like BWPs or below of the files.

[Dick Turpin]

For those that are not following what's going on here, there is an excellent tutorial that the What.cd (RIP) Interview prep site regarding transcode etc:

hxxps://opentrackers.org/whatinterviewprep.com/prepare-for-the-interview/spectral-analysis/index.html

Further evidence using Audacity concurring with BWP (click images to enlarge):



and

[Big Archive]

Any news about the lossy accident?

[Sonor Music Editions]

Hello there all.

First of all, I need to clarify that only an APM Search registered user will have the ability to access and download lossless WAV, as well as AIFF, mp3 320 and mp3 128. Anyone not registered that is somehow ripping the music off the site will only have access to mp3 128, which is, of course, compressed for the purpose of quick streaming through the browser.

So, this point is very important: APM distributes the recordings for synchronization clients, and only registered users, using the music for synchronization, can access the full-quality WAVs.

After telling this, here's my report: these files have been transfered from the original tapes many years ago (not by me of course), and during the years they suffered of various passages, they were previously passed on DAT, then on CDs and so on. So we probably loosed some quality due all this process and we also must consider that 20/25 years ago we couldn't benefit of the technology we have now about audio editing. So it probably happened that a killer denoize filter cut off the frequencies during the various transfers as the graphics are showing? That's the most likely scenario after a talk with the original engineer that managed these files.




 

[oliverino]

After telling this, here's my report: these files have been transfered from the original tapes many years ago (not by me of course), and during the years they suffered of various passages, they were previously passed on DAT, then on CDs and so on. So we probably loosed some quality due all this process and we also must consider that 20/25 years ago we couldn't benefit of the technology we have now about audio editing. So it probably happened that a killer denoize filter cut off the frequencies during the various transfers as the graphics are showing? That's the most likely scenario after a talk with the original engineer that managed these files.

Thanks for the explanation. Do you still have access to the original tapes? Or an earlier generation copy (which might not have this "denoize" filter applied)? It would be a shame if this is what is left to preserve from the original tapes.

[BlackwatchPlaid]

Hello there all.

First of all, I need to clarify that only an APM Search registered user will have the ability to access and download lossless WAV, as well as AIFF, mp3 320 and mp3 128. Anyone not registered that is somehow ripping the music off the site will only have access to mp3 128, which is, of course, compressed for the purpose of quick streaming through the browser.

So, this point is very important: APM distributes the recordings for synchronization clients, and only registered users, using the music for synchronization, can access the full-quality WAVs.

After telling this, here's my report: these files have been transfered from the original tapes many years ago (not by me of course), and during the years they suffered of various passages, they were previously passed on DAT, then on CDs and so on. So we probably loosed some quality due all this process and we also must consider that 20/25 years ago we couldn't benefit of the technology we have now about audio editing. So it probably happened that a killer denoize filter cut off the frequencies during the various transfers as the graphics are showing? That's the most likely scenario after a talk with the original engineer that managed these files.

I am a registered user on APM music and can download the unaltered wave files.

The files on the first post of this thread are those original unaltered wave files only available to registered APM users.

That's a real shame, especially seeing as some much older and poorer condition music made it through just fine, like the KPM Brownsleeve 78rpm records, or the Jack Shaindlin reissues that Music DeWolfe put out in a series, or the Cavendish relabeling of Boosey & Hawkes material that changed several hands over the years.  This sounds an awful lot like the reason there are Dr. Who DVDs with still scenes with dialogue on top. 

A shame creators of art cannot see the value in preserving their craft.