Author Topic: Spaced Out Disco & Funkified Electronic Themes 1973 - 1987 vol. 1 & 2  (Read 1362 times)

Ene

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Interesting compilation. An electronic pill in two parts. If it has already been posted, please forgive me. Unfortunately, I'm uploading it to mp3, but maybe it doesn't bother anyone.



mega.nz/file/YHgjAbiA#JeA1Q9Azayl628rmPZ6RY5-AHARWrqWgSOcX39WxkbI

keir

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Re: Spaced Out Disco & Funkified Electronic Themes 1973 - 1987 vol. 1 & 2
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2023, 03:26:45 PM »
thank you!

keir

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Re: Spaced Out Disco & Funkified Electronic Themes 1973 - 1987 vol. 1 & 2
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2023, 03:38:49 PM »
I found a flac version of Vol. 1

It behaves a bit strangely in Fakin' The Funk - if I analyse the whole album it thinks tracks 1 & 2 are fake, if I analyse just the first half it thinks track 1 is fake, if I analyse just the first third or less it thinks it's all fine. My guess is that it's all fine and FTF is just getting confused by variation in the sources used and the restoration.

hxxps://we.tl/t-xXulhWjlZW

Psyclon

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Re: Spaced Out Disco & Funkified Electronic Themes 1973 - 1987 vol. 1 & 2
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2023, 11:06:38 AM »
It's certainly being tampered with but not only with codecs, but also the mastering. These 1983 albums were never hot-mastered like that. Getting close to 0db and almost never leaving the red area shows that these "restorators" were participating in loudness wars - which is absolutely contrary to library music, music on LP and from the early 80s. I think these people really missed the target and just tried to join the bandwagon.

According to Discogs, these tracks are far from "unreleased", a great person linked the original albums. I'd rather put a request thread up and get the LP recordings than these versions I'm afraid. . .

nidostar

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Re: Spaced Out Disco & Funkified Electronic Themes 1973 - 1987 vol. 1 & 2
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2023, 11:41:46 AM »
I bow to your expertise everyone. So are you saying that while these are legitimate recordings that the publishers of the CDs have remastered them? If so that is not unusual in this day and age is it?

Incidentally thanks to Ene for sharing the MP3 version. And for anyone who's interested I found a FLAC version of Vol 2 here: ht**s://pixeldrain.com/u/qZztBHy5

Psyclon

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Re: Spaced Out Disco & Funkified Electronic Themes 1973 - 1987 vol. 1 & 2
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2023, 12:27:24 PM »
Loudness wars basically was a problem that many people listened on their portable players, in car stereos and other environments. Putting out a vinyl record onto a player which was usually the HiFi system in your living room / lounge required "attention". Putting on a cassette or CD in your cheap kitchen radio not. What you wanted there is loudness. Just like while skating, doing workout, driving or the household. The more the music became portable, the louder it needed to be as you are not in your quiet living room anymore.

Another problematic thing is that humans tend to vote for the louder track of something as perceived better quality. If you do an AB test (two identical tracks!) and one has for example 3db more, people take that over the EXACT SAME track just a tad quieter and say the louder one is "better".

The last thing is that a vinyl has natural limits: A groove can't expand endlessly. It has physical limits how to store audio. Later, on CD but also with more advanced digital technology, there were more ways to get loudness out of music by equalize certain bands - you could artificially lower ranges that would clip (and result in nasty overall sound) which meant you could add gain to the lower parts. Almost like playing with clay - remove something here and put it there. In the end, the dynamic was lost. Try it yourself: Add a 1983 file into audacity and then a 2010 file - the one looks like a sausage: a fade in, a big wall of sound (like a brickwall), and a fade out.

Younger audiences and uniexperienced "mastering engineers" don't understand the value of dynamics. It's just great to see the climax of a song in Audacity as there the instruments pile up, the mastering is louder to give it more emphasis. Radio pop music is so equalized it's borderline disgusting.

nidostar

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Re: Spaced Out Disco & Funkified Electronic Themes 1973 - 1987 vol. 1 & 2
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2023, 01:42:32 PM »
Ah I see what you mean. Though it's not just loudness - which is where the higher and lower frequencies are increased to compensate for the human ear's tendency to only hear mid range frequencies at low volume - but also compression. Hence your very apt description of the "sausage". My son had a gig in London a few months back. During the soundcheck we were all puzzled why we couldn't hear certain instruments or voices above the overall cacophony being produced through their PA system. It transpired the trainee sound guy had wound the compression setting to full believing that rock music needed to be really loud but forgetting that in doing so it lost all definition. Give me a sixties orchestral vinyl album any time if you want to hear a pure, clear and good quality recording. Something I think the recording studios in your country, Psyclon, excelled in back then. I'm thinking particularly of Polydor.

Ene

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Re: Spaced Out Disco & Funkified Electronic Themes 1973 - 1987 vol. 1 & 2
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2023, 02:28:32 PM »
Every time I share such a compilation in mp3 format, I do it with the thought that someone will use them to listen to them on portable devices while knitting, sitting on the toilet bowl, etc. We are not always able to listen to music in our home listening sanctuaries. Sometimes you need to look a bit more carefully at such compilations that are still useful outside the home.

Psyclon

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Re: Spaced Out Disco & Funkified Electronic Themes 1973 - 1987 vol. 1 & 2
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2023, 02:40:13 PM »
No no no, there is a misunderstanding :D

The formats have nothing to do with how people distribute the music. I just connected the dots between the era of a release (e.g. the 80s), the media (e.g. LPs) and tech present (computer-aided mastering/mixing equipment or fully analogue) at that time and how people consumed recorded music (e.g. whilst driving). I do play back MP3s on my PANASONIC stereo where I even bought thicker wires (and it was a pain to get them into their holders without banana clips) in my living room and my BOSE in my bedroom. So I play back "considered ugh-MP3s" on sound systems I'd consider more on the quality side. Just in case you think I tried to say that MP3s are for low-attention people or something. As you know, I have my collection in MP3 and I highly enjoy my library music :)

An MP3 file contains the same dynamics; it does not change the tone itself apart from the psyodel! There is a saying, I think it's from the UK (I heard it mostly from there): "Shit in, Shit out". And that is the problem. The "shit" in that case is the loudness - no matter if you share it as MP3 or FLAC or AIFF, it will be the same. The FLAC shares are both hot-mastered, which kind of proves my point.

I assume that younger audiences or "the market" just don't like quiet music where you gotta pay attention. There are SONOTONs where you have to listen carefully in the beginning, and some DE WOLFEs where the audio is so quiet that the echo in that tracks drowns in the noise of their reel-to-reel tape back in the late 1970s. If you look at audacity, there is just a very thin line of "audio" in these parts. If you drive your car or do workout a gym, you probably think you accidently hit the pause button. This is not wanted nowadays, so if these tracks are re-released, I assume they'd add 20db of gain - but ruining the feel of the song and the intention of the composers.

EDIT: I am very grateful for this album though as I actually found tracks that I do enjoy. Hence my "Ugh, why did they do that to these tracks?!". The reason why I stopped caring about music from 2000+ is the lack of dynamics. An orchestra hit has an impact if the overall song is carefully mastered. If it's at -4dB mastered, a potential orchestra hit has a mere 4dB until it hits "the ceiling" (clips). If the overall track is at -8db ~ -12dB, you have more room for accents like these. Also, a bass can be more gentle as its not masked by the other loud instruments.


On top, it's the first track from the first compilation which is from 1983. You see that Audacity tracks the at that point loudest parts that have played back in the past (I think you can set up that amount of time) with these blue lines in the VU meters (the coloured bars). You can see, it hits the "ceiling". There is litearlly zero dynamics left, it's "just loud". The red lines within the waveform is a feature of Audacity to show clipping - or in other words: Bad mastering!

The second track is "Hercules" (SONOTON - Sound Giants) from 1984. There are orchestra hits going on - and you can even see them as the waveform bulges. The music is louder in these parts, but not going into the reds but stopping at early orange. During these accents, they hit the loudest point (as seen that they touch the blue bars in the VU meters). The loudest parts are -4db, usually far less. This makes these accents stand out and thus for a great listening experience as you get excited while listening. Far from the 0dB+ as seen above, where the overall tracks hits the ceiling dozens of times.

The lowest track is "Neon Beams" (SONOTON - Motions) from 1984 too. You can see how "quiet" the parts inbetween are - and how good the big kick drums stand out. Because of the higher dynamics, they have "room" to kick so to speak, and they do stand out in the actual track. The overall track can be averaged at are around -12dB, but as you can see on the blue bars, the loudest parts are at about -4dB/-5dB.

All of these are MP3s by the way. So I assume that someone took the first file and amplified it so it is loud - clipping included. I am sure the recording and mastering professionals at the libraries would never hot-master with clipping. So someone else did......

Ah I see what you mean. Though it's not just loudness - which is where the higher and lower frequencies are increased to compensate for the human ear's tendency to only hear mid range frequencies at low volume - but also compression. Hence your very apt description of the "sausage". My son had a gig in London a few months back. During the soundcheck we were all puzzled why we couldn't hear certain instruments or voices above the overall cacophony being produced through their PA system. It transpired the trainee sound guy had wound the compression setting to full believing that rock music needed to be really loud but forgetting that in doing so it lost all definition. Give me a sixties orchestral vinyl album any time if you want to hear a pure, clear and good quality recording. Something I think the recording studios in your country, Psyclon, excelled in back then. I'm thinking particularly of Polydor.

Totally did not see that response. And yes, that me smile. Trainee sound guy is a good description; our company had rented one of these rack systems on rolls as main device with huge speakers for our christmas celebration thingy. It was a fantastic, professional grade monster. And you can guess what my young male colleagues did - pump up the three left sliders on the 12-band EQ so there was just muffled bass left. "Last Christmas" was soundling like underwater with the the digital kick drums making the speaker casings vibrate and George Michael's voice was so weirdly distorted and in the distance that, after a while, you got your ears aching by all these bad noises that used to be music formerly. Lowering the mids a bit and adding some highs could totally restored some of that without losing the "Woomp" they were aiming for, but I did not even bother... I guess they think the red light at the end of the VU LEDs are a good thing..... And it was almost constantly flashing to indicate clipping . . . .

Mixing and mastering are extremely important, and that is why I enjoy so much library music. The voice is often supposed to be the leader and the actual music has to be put in the background. Not a deal with the mostly instrumental LM.  Loudness wars together with poor understanding of stereo panning are the two banes of bad recordings.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2023, 03:19:43 PM by Psyclon »

John_Fred

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Re: Spaced Out Disco & Funkified Electronic Themes 1973 - 1987 vol. 1 & 2
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2023, 09:46:50 AM »
Every time I share such a compilation in mp3 format, I do it with the thought that someone will use them to listen to them on portable devices while knitting, sitting on the toilet bowl, etc. We are not always able to listen to music in our home listening sanctuaries. Sometimes you need to look a bit more carefully at such compilations that are still useful outside the home.
Can I categorically state that I have never listened to any library music whilst knitting or sitting on a toilet bowl!  🤣🤣😉😁😋

Ene

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Re: Spaced Out Disco & Funkified Electronic Themes 1973 - 1987 vol. 1 & 2
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2023, 11:55:16 AM »
Every time I share such a compilation in mp3 format, I do it with the thought that someone will use them to listen to them on portable devices while knitting, sitting on the toilet bowl, etc. We are not always able to listen to music in our home listening sanctuaries. Sometimes you need to look a bit more carefully at such compilations that are still useful outside the home.
Can I categorically state that I have never listened to any library music whilst knitting or sitting on a toilet bowl!  🤣🤣😉😁😋

You see how open my mind is ;D ;D

Ice8

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Re: Spaced Out Disco & Funkified Electronic Themes 1973 - 1987 vol. 1 & 2
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2023, 06:13:41 AM »
Many thanks Ene, keir and nidostar for these great rip.

danthemusiclover

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Re: Spaced Out Disco & Funkified Electronic Themes 1973 - 1987 vol. 1 & 2
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2023, 12:09:36 PM »
Thanks a lot Ene  :D
LMT my safe place.