Library Music Themes
General Sharing & Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Retronic on November 21, 2018, 07:21:10 PM
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How many of the Sam Fox SF Run has seen the light of day on LMT or elsewhere over the years? Which do you have and what’s missing?
I remember Frayker Breaks shared some of these with me years back which must be on a hard drive somewhere. I remember one of them being really good & funky but don’t remember the number.
Show us what you got!
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This is all I have...
sf 1015 - syd dale - modern beat & period music with a beat
sf 1016 - syd dale, brian fahey & malcolm lockyer
sf 1018 - syd dale & various - untitled
sf 1021 - joe sherman & william goldstein
sf 1023 - johnny hawksworth - a hawksworth happening
sf 1030 - untitled (1974)
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I’ll dig around and see what I have. Meanwhile can you up some for me Stack, please.
1015
1021
1030
:-)
Cheers
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No problem, Retro. Links below:
SF 1015
mega.nz/#!cNRFgQLB!JYDJ2EkoF-A23PMZrXMyvs7rF8pp8yNgMhMiyPa0tcQ
SF 1021
mega.nz/#!gFZFGA6D!LGtMBXbd6DhwX25IxNrTjqFd88aZ9AxnxEvxoZ9nu_o
SF 1030 - FLAC
mega.nz/#!0VR1kSoQ!ZwJlUdxcaoOnfeK67CKgWa-yVXQrI9qXPVNxiMfyQ0c
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Thanks Stack!
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These are the records I have. Some are kind of scratchy.
SF 1001
SF 1002
SF 1006
SF 1012
SF 1013
SF 1015
SF 1016
SF 1017
SF 1018
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Cool initiative! I really like this label, with its timeless, cool logo and varied catalogue.
A load of sleeved Synchro-Fox LPs showed up on eBay a short while back, I hope someone here snagged a few :)
In addition to what has been mentioned so far, I have these:
SF 1003 - Scenic, Title Music/Light Movement, Travel/Saxophone Quartet/Jazz/Romantic, Sentimental/Solos in Three Moods (Gay, Neutral, Sad)/Duets/Space Music, Suspense
SF 1010 - Industrial/National/Scenic/Pastorale/Dramatic/March (Children's/Toy)/Dance/Jazz/Swing/Novelties
SF 1019 - Untitled (Sten Clift)
SF 1020 - Electronic Effects
SF 1022 [incomplete] - Nuances of Hale Smith/Untitled
SF 1029 - Deserted Palace Volume 1
SF 2001 - Light and Modern Movement/Marches/Documentary/Ceremonial/Dramatic/Suspense
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Cool initiative! I really like this label, with its timeless, cool logo and varied catalogue.
A load of sleeved Synchro-Fox LPs showed up on eBay a short while back, I hope someone here snagged a few :)
In addition to what has been mentioned so far, I have these:
SF 1003 - Scenic, Title Music/Light Movement, Travel/Saxophone Quartet/Jazz/Romantic, Sentimental/Solos in Three Moods (Gay, Neutral, Sad)/Duets/Space Music, Suspense
SF 1010 - Industrial/National/Scenic/Pastorale/Dramatic/March (Children's/Toy)/Dance/Jazz/Swing/Novelties
SF 1019 - Untitled (Sten Clift)
SF 1020 - Electronic Effects
SF 1022 [incomplete] - Nuances of Hale Smith/Untitled
SF 1029 - Deserted Palace Volume 1
SF 2001 - Light and Modern Movement/Marches/Documentary/Ceremonial/Dramatic/Suspense
1019 and 2001 would be amazing when you get time :)
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(http://i65.tinypic.com/dnbuc3.jpg)
[A Sam Fox Production] SF 1010 - Mario Nascimbene - Industrial Revolution, 1965
h++ps://www9.zippyshare.com/v/Qz9C5O0T/file.html (.mp3)
h++ps://www9.zippyshare.com/v/LWTRE0HX/file.html (.flac)
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Excellent. Thanks fpr the responses and for the 1010 a8detective.
Mr, would you up 1020 & YPD would you upload 1017, please?
My old list suggests I have mp3's of the following somewhere:
1006/1012/1013/1015/1021/1022/1029/1030
If anyone can easily up these it would save me digging. I have some LPs I've never ripped as well that I can do.
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One thing i've always wondered about the Sam Fox stuff, is how far in years it goes? Never found any mid - late 70's stuff. Was always very early 70's and earlier. Did it crap out after early 70's or is later stuff just mega rare?
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One thing i've always wondered about the Sam Fox stuff, is how far in years it goes? Never found any mid - late 70's stuff. Was always very early 70's and earlier. Did it crap out after early 70's or is later stuff just mega rare?
The library actually started out publishing folios music for silent films, as well as popular music and marches. According to entries in Business Screen Magazine, it went into the recorded music business in 1930, although the physical releases I've seen are likely mid-to-late 1960s, the run ending in I presume the early 70s. They also had a subsidiary in England, the Synchro Library of Recorded Music, those were released in the late 50s (1957-59). I suspect a lot of the material on this label was acquired, as you have material from British (definitely from Synchro), French (likely from the French Synchro-Disc label), Dutch (from the Sonorama label) and even Mexican composers in addition to the Americans like Joe Sherman and William Goldstein.
Love this label, too, and there's so much great stuff on it [Syd Dale's tracks in particular are brilliant, apparently recorded with the same musicians in Cologne who recorded a lot of the early KPM stuff]. Kinda overlooked when you compare it to, say, Walter Murphy's tracks on Valentino, Capitol, or the Tanner stuff, sadly.
If you're curious, some of my favorite tracks on the label and its branches overseas would be "Route Nationale" by Roger Roger [Synchro FM (pretty sure that stands for "Fox Music") 236), "Forever Frantic" by Robert Mersey [retitled "Dot and Dash" by the folks at Carlin Production Music], "Cool Bossa Nova" by Malcolm Lockyer [SF 1018] and "Sand Dance" by Syd Dale [SF 1015].
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These are what I got, in addition to what has been mentioned above.
1001 1002 1006 1012 1013 1017 1025
Let me know guys if you're interested in any.
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Would love 6, 12,13, 15, 21, 25, 29, 30.
Thanks Greta. Will return the favour when I get mine ripped ;-)
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Thank you A8 for the Nascimbene upgrade.
Would love 6, 12,13, 15, 21, 25, 29, 30.
Thanks Greta. Will return the favour when I get mine ripped ;-)
Sure, upping now.
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Thanks for the Nascimbene, a8!
1019 and 2001 would be amazing when you get time :)
Sure thing:
SF 1019 - Untitled
nova://www77.zippyshare.com/v/pYyzb7aT/file.html
SF 2001 - Light and Modern Movement-Marches-Documentary-Ceremonial-Dramatic-Suspense
ssix://www77.zippyshare.com/v/lOIcWGLO/file.html
Mr, would you up 1020 & YPD would you upload 1017, please?
Of course! :)
SF 1020 - Electronic Effects
drops://www77.zippyshare.com/v/uZiTikRn/file.html
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Lovely. Thanks all. We’re ticking them off! I’ll rip some Saturday ;-)
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Retro, I've uploaded 6, 12, 13, 25, 29, cause 15, 21 and 30 have been uploaded by Stack already.
25 is only side b unfortunately, and 29 is flac.
www65.zippyshare.com/v/pS6LffuS/file.html
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Thanks for the Nascimbene, a8!
1019 and 2001 would be amazing when you get time :)
Sure thing:
SF 1019 - Untitled
nova://www77.zippyshare.com/v/pYyzb7aT/file.html
SF 2001 - Light and Modern Movement-Marches-Documentary-Ceremonial-Dramatic-Suspense
ssix://www77.zippyshare.com/v/lOIcWGLO/file.html
Mr, would you up 1020 & YPD would you upload 1017, please?
Of course! :)
SF 1020 - Electronic Effects
drops://www77.zippyshare.com/v/uZiTikRn/file.html
Much Appreciated :)
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Thanks Greta- thanks all.
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Thank you everybody :)
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YPD would you upload 1017, please?
I have it ripped in 192 kbps with scratch noises.
I have today free. I'll see if I can clean it up and rip it. (If I can find it in one of the boxes in the garage from our move)
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Cheers, fella
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Thanks for the upgrades, Greta!
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Yeah, something must have happened when the Carlin Archive Series decided to reissue some of the Sam Fox material.
Nino Nardini's "Stars and Teardrops" from SF 1007 became "Joe Cool" on CAS Jazzy Vibes.
Philippe Parès' "Cafard" from SF 1012 became "Blues For You" on Jazzy Vibes and attributed to his father, Gabriel Parès.
Then Sinetone AMR decided to make two Philippe Parès et son orchestre albums, Thoughts and Urgency, that combined his library work from Sam Fox, Synchro, and Southern Library of Recorded Music and from a "regular-sold-to-the-public" French label, Pacific.
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Anyone know the original title for "Skip and Jump" and "Chinese Mystery" by Cecil Leuter and Nino Nardini respectively? They're two of my favorite cues from Fox.
Also, thanks for the uploads, Stack and Greta.
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Before last night, I'd only heard about Sam Fox records, but never heard any. What a haul!
I even got some good quality generic covers for use in future archiving ;D
Thanks to everybody who contributed their rips and background info.
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Anybody happen to know how to find the recording or release year for these Sam Fox pieces?
It seems like 1973 was when they started putting copyright dates starting with SF 1028. But that’s near the end of the known run.
I cannot seem to find dates for the earlier SF numbers.
Assuming that the Synchro Library of Recorded Music is related, they put their dates on the 78 releases as late as 1959 which would still leave quite a long gap.
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Anybody happen to know how to find the recording or release year for these Sam Fox pieces?
It seems like 1973 was when they started putting copyright dates starting with SF 1028. But that’s near the end of the known run.
I cannot seem to find dates for the earlier SF numbers.
Assuming that the Synchro Library of Recorded Music is related, they put their dates on the 78 releases as late as 1959 which would still leave quite a long gap.
I've heard some of the Sam Fox cues were in use for drive-in cinemas in the 60's, so it probably starts somewhere in the early-to-mid-60's with SF 1001? Just speculation, though, unfortunately. It seems to have become "Synchro-Fox" c. 1973.
One of the Loren R. Wilfong cues on SF 1001 was copyright registered in 1963, so that'd be my guess.
Curiously, according to a 1959 edition of Billboard Magazine, Synchro Music was set up as a partnership between Sam Fox and Southern Music(!). The same source claims that Sam Fox was, in 1959, run by Keith Prowse and Peter Maurice of KPM.
Contemporary records indicate Sam Fox' different branches have ended up various places; Sam Fox Australia under Southern Music Publ. Co. and Sam Fox Musikverlag (Germany) under Peer-Southern while Sam Fox Publ. Co., Inc. (USA) and Sam Fox Publ. Co. Ltd. (UK) seems to have remained independent.
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Anybody happen to know how to find the recording or release year for these Sam Fox pieces?
It seems like 1973 was when they started putting copyright dates starting with SF 1028. But that’s near the end of the known run.
I cannot seem to find dates for the earlier SF numbers.
Assuming that the Synchro Library of Recorded Music is related, they put their dates on the 78 releases as late as 1959 which would still leave quite a long gap.
I've heard some of the Sam Fox cues were in use for drive-in cinemas in the 60's, so it probably starts somewhere in the early-to-mid-60's with SF 1001? Just speculation, though, unfortunately. It seems to have become "Synchro-Fox" c. 1973.
One of the Loren R. Wilfong cues on SF 1001 was copyright registered in 1963, so that'd be my guess.
Curiously, according to a 1959 edition of Billboard Magazine, Synchro Music was set up as a partnership between Sam Fox and Southern Music(!). The same source claims that Sam Fox was, in 1959, run by Keith Prowse and Peter Maurice of KPM.
Contemporary records indicate Sam Fox' different branches have ended up various places; Sam Fox Australia under Southern Music Publ. Co. and Sam Fox Musikverlag (Germany) under Peer-Southern while Sam Fox Publ. Co., Inc. (USA) and Sam Fox Publ. Co. Ltd. (UK) seems to have remained independent.
That is correct, you can hear tons of Fox cues (known and unknown) over those ubiquitous little films made for drive-ins if you type in "hey folks it's intermission time", or "drive-in intermission" or anything in that same vein in YouTube. A lot of those cues are among my personal "holy grails", one of these days I might post clips of them in the Track ID section.
I've always kinda felt there was a connection between Fox and Southern, since the Brussels New Concert Orchestra recorded cues for both labels, and also because composers like Joseph Cacciola who wrote cues for Fox later turned up writing cues for Southern.
Same with KPM. There's undoubtedly a connection between KPM and Fox in my mind, and that article seems to back this suspicion up. As I've pointed out before, there are Hi-Q albums with KPM material with an "SF" prefix (D-93/94, at least one "L" album, I forget which other ones), and there's a few Bill Loose cues on one of the Fox 1000 series albums that ended up being re-released by KPM (curiously, none of them were retitled).
Another thought: what if some of the earlier SF 1000 series albums have some re-released tracks? SF 1012 has a few honky-tonk piano arrangements of public domain tunes from Vic Lamont which are obviously older than when they were released as "Winter Tales" was used by Hanna-Barbera in 1958, well before the likely release date of these earlier albums, wouldn't be surprised if some of the other tracks on them are either re-releases of older tracks or of foreign library material.
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Have all the SF releases been heard? Any not turned up yet?
I have Synchr-Fox catalogues but didn’t see any dates. Will check again.
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I think we're missing a good handful still - do you have any shelved?
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SF 2001 is definitely full of reissues with the label outright saying so.
I’m not sure if this series came a lot later or before SF 1027, but it’s omitted the copyright dates again even though it is Synchro Fox already.
discogs.com/Various-Synchro-Fox-Golden-Group/release/6250729
A couple are fairly easy to track from the Synchro Recorded Music library 78s. Others have yet to pop up at least by the names on the label.
discogs.com/The-Grosvenor-Studio-Orchestra-Holiday-On-The-Road/release/7807826
discogs.com/The-Grosvenor-Studio-Orchestra-Atlantic-Seaway/release/7807896
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In the catalogue I have it looks they were released alongside each other. I think one has SF 2001 but not SF 2002 and it isn’t yet up to 1029. I’ll dig it out.
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Did you manage to find the catalog? Unfortunately, searching for Sam Fox music is a bit difficult since it is also the name of another recording artist/model.
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It looks like both 2001 and 2002 were out between 1017 and 1022. I have two catalogues ; the first goes up to 1017 but the supplement is 1018 - 1022 and also has the 2001/ 2002 issues and as you say states 'Re-issues of the most successful Synchro*Fox music cues previously unavailabe on LP records'. I can't see any date. (https://i.postimg.cc/T1f9YbVk/IMG-5706.jpg)
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How strange. There’s no dates anywhere in the catalog like the cover, title, or copyright page?
I’d imagine the rest of the pages for SF 1001-1015 look pretty much the same unless there’s something more than track listing, timing, and genre notes.
Also I seem to recall an interview/blog post someone posted here regarding one of the musicians who recorded for Sam Fox.
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Thank you very much Greta for the lossless 1029.
I've ripped to lossless 1001 > 1030 except for: 1019, 1023, 1029.
I've ripped 2001. I don't have 2002.
Many I've ripped twice when I had two copies.
Unfortunately it's hit and miss in condition with the ones I had, some aren't bad and some have a lot of surface / background noise.
Some of the copies I had came from a tv studio where they would stamp the date they received the record. Sometimes that gives an indication that the record was made that year or earlier. For instance 1009 (1965 or before), 1013 (1966 or before), 1014 (1969 or before), etc.
Andrew
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Andrew I would love lossless rips of any of these you'd be happy to share :) :
6/7/8/12/13/14/16/17/20/21/22/24/25/26/27/28
I can do 19 and 23.
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Impressive! Can I humbly ask for 1024 and 1025?
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Andrew, great stuff!
Would love
4/5/9/11
Many thanks in advance!
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Eleventh Hour, I have some or all of them I can do for you.
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In addition to all the above, an upgrade of SF 1018, which I have now @192, would be appreciated ;)
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Here's my rips of 1024 > 1028 in FLAC. I'll try to get some more done later.
There's bound to be quite a bit of surface noise on these.
I usually only do light noise removal to avoid damaging things like attacks on drums and brass. (and castanets! any attempts at automatic cleaning seem to always wreck those). I have to give a shout out to the ClickFix plugin for audition, I've been using it for 15 years and in my opinion it always does a way better job than the built in removal. (I'm not affiliated with them)
1024:
www87.zippyshare.com/v/12Hlbn1W/file.html
1025:
www87.zippyshare.com/v/kvCZendS/file.html
1026:
www87.zippyshare.com/v/KvpfQClD/file.html
1027:
www87.zippyshare.com/v/wOmIMVRZ/file.html
1028:
www87.zippyshare.com/v/ajEgayK0/file.html
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Oh YES!!! Lovely. Thank you.
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You're welcome! :)
Here are three rips I did of 1018 from three different records. Maybe you could pick the songs you think are in least worst condition from each.
1018 (rip 1):
www78.zippyshare.com/v/lAbpUZMj/file.html
1018 (rip 2):
www78.zippyshare.com/v/Tbx3Fv2J/file.html
1018 (rip 3):
www78.zippyshare.com/v/AibjxHZf/file.html
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Excellent, thanks a lot Andrew! :)
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Here are three rips I did of 1018 from three different records. Maybe you could pick the songs you think are in least worst condition from each.
Wow, what a rare gift. Many thanks, Andrew!
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Same with KPM. There's undoubtedly a connection between KPM and Fox in my mind, and that article seems to back this suspicion up. As I've pointed out before, there are Hi-Q albums with KPM material with an "SF" prefix (D-93/94, at least one "L" album, I forget which other ones), and there's a few Bill Loose cues on one of the Fox 1000 series albums that ended up being re-released by KPM (curiously, none of them were retitled).
Yes, there's an early connection between Sam Fox and the Keith Prowse music publishing library (pre-KPM) that goes way back to the 1920s. Oliver Lomax says a few things about this deal in his recent book The Mood Modern.
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Wow Andrew, Thanks!
I have this record too, but my copy is also scratchy.
I'll give it a go picking out the best versions.
Your Pal,
Doug
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Andrew,
I think 2018 (rip 3) would be the pick.
Retro,
I haven't forgotten to rip Sam Fox 1017
My computer crashed and the mic input I use for audio input isn't being recognized by my editing software.
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No worries Doug- whenever you can. I haven't forgotten yours and Stacks Boosey requests-- they are coming soon.
I too have 1018- how okay is that third rip? I can check mine for noise.
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Thank you Andrew for these Foxes. It was kind of unfamiliar territory for me, and I'm discovering great things.
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Thanks for the great Fox albums, Andrew! Lots of amazing stuff here. Joe Sherman and Raymond Weidenaar in particular are criminally underrated.
PS: Can I ask for a rip of SF 1011? Been after that one for some time.
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Eleventh Hour, I have some or all of them I can do for you.
Thank you my good man :)
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Here's SF 1011 apmnut.
The 1966 date stamped on the label is the date a tv studio received the record, not necessarily the date the record was made.
www6.zippyshare.com/v/E8Os4aUv/file.html
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Thanks from me too Andrew.
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Thanks, Andrew!
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Thanks again Andrew! :)
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1028:
www87.zippyshare.com/v/ajEgayK0/file.html
[/quote]
Thanks, Andrew! Was looking for this one!
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I was working on Sam Fox 1017 today.
I finished Side 1 in FLAC
Side 2 skips and is pretty scratchy.
Record Cleaning:
Any suggestions on maybe soaking the record or using a sponge?
The solution and record cleaning tools weren't enough.
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I have sometimes deep cleaned a record with wood glue, which usually works beautifully. A couple of times it didn't help at all and I'm not sure if the records ended up even noisier than before. But about 100 times I've turned a horrible looking and sounding record into EX. Some people will probably scream in terror seeing someone suggesting this, but maybe you want to consider. Google a bit before trying so you'll know the basic tips and the right stuff to use.
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I thought I'd follow through and list the Sam Fox titles I acquired in my recent haul. They are as follows:
1001
1002
1003 (2)
1004 (2)
1006
1007 (2)
1008
1009
1010
1012
1013
1014
1015
1016
1019
1020
1021
1022
1023
1024
1025
Also, the following Synchro Fox Golden Group:
2001
2002
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I found the interview I mentioned a while back.
magneticmusic.ws/Frame.htm
Electronic Music for Commercial Radio and TV Spots
Hale Smith is a black American composer who had a day job at Sam Fox Film Rights, publisher of background music for commercials. In 1968 Hale asked his friend Donald Erb to compose some electronic music for Sam Fox’s library. Don was not interested but passed along Hale’s request to me. I went to New York, met Hale, and learned that the most successful music was the easiest to use: tailored to precise 30- or 60-second durations and containing “little holes” for ease of editing. He told me that this library was known as “needle-drop” music, because it was charged at a flat rate per drop of the turntable needle onto the LP disk (i.e., for use in one commercial) without further royalties no matter how often the commercial was broadcast. It was also low-budget music, the fees ranging from about $7.50 to $45.00 or so (I would be paid 50%). It was directed towards the very large market of recording studios and radio stations that wanted hassle-free stock music for simple local commercial spots, without having to hire a composer. Sam Fox was a long-established company and their earliest libraries were issued on 78 rpm records. Now they were engaged in publishing two libraries of 33 1/3 rpm LP disks, Sam Fox for ASCAP music and Demeter for BMI music. Hale said that most of their music came from scores for films that had been produced but then encountered problems and were never released. Sam Fox wanted to release some electronic music, which was then in the public eye, but at that time there were no distressed films with electronic scores available.
Working for a few weeks in the R.A. Moog Co. studio in Trumansburg, I composed enough music for both sides of an LP disk, and gave the tunes suitably dopey titles (some of which were changed to dopier ones by Sam Fox Film Rights). The disk was released in 1968 with the title “Electronic Effects” shortly before I moved to Cleveland. In mid-1969 I began to hear my music on local TV commercials, so I hooked up a tape recorder to my TV. I used an old low-end half-track Webcor recorder (a prize for playing the opening to “Rhapsody in Blue” and winning the Michigan division of the “Music Man” contest in 1960) at 3 ¾ ips; I was looking for only the most basic quality, just to prove the use of my music if necessary.
Hale Smith seems to be describing SF 1022 which has yet to be added to the discogs listing for the Sam Fox label.
chevalierdesaintgeorges.homestead.com/Smith.html
This site also gives SF 1022 with a date of 1968. I wonder what the original dopey titles were.
There's another description for Sam Fox SF 1020 which was also released in 1968 for Reynold Weidenaar.
He describes SF 1025 released in 1970.
My second production for Sam Fox was one side of an LP in late 1970. I was then working full-time at Audio Recording Studios, Inc., and also using the electronic music studio at the Cleveland Institute of Music while taking composition lessons there from Donald Erb. I recorded the synth parts at CIM on an Ampex 300 4-track recorder. The drum parts were later overdubbed at ARS and were performed by George Stage, a recording engineer at the studio (cuts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 10, 11).
Working as a recording engineer in a studio which had purchased the Sam Fox Library gave me an insight into how the royalty process worked (or didn't work, to be more precise). ARS subscribed to the Sam Fox Library by paying a fee for each disk and also a basic yearly usage fee. ARS would then bill clients a needle-drop fee (per-use synchronization) when a Sam Fox tune was recorded on a commercial or some other soundtrack, typically $25. ARS was then supposed to file a form with Sam Fox, showing which music had been used and paying a scheduled per-use license fee, typically $7.50-$15--half of which was then to be reported and paid by Sam Fox to the composer. When I started working as Traffic Manager at ARS in April 1969, I saw that the required forms were not going out to Sam Fox. Naturally in my new position of responsibility I was able to rectify this little oversight. My colleagues and the owners at ARS were very supportive of this new policy; the money was minimal and they were happy that someone other than them was taking care of the paperwork.
The number of forms from ARS citing my music could not have been more than six or eight over the course of the year. For any one composer it is a high-volume business only when his or her music is widely used and faithfully reported at recording studios and radio stations all across the country. This proved to be unlikely. By mid-1970, a year's worth of royalty statements from Sam Fox to me showed precisely NONE of the needle-drops reported to them by ARS. The nice folks at Sam Fox had the good sense to be embarrassed by this and managed to "find" some hundreds of dollars in missing royalties. However, without a way to research uses of my music in local markets around the U.S., most such uses probably escaped royalty payments to the composer.
The use of music in national TV commercials, however, is another matter entirely. ASCAP monitored the broadcasts of TV Guide and other commercials, and paid royalties to Sam Fox and to me. Needle-drop fees in this context were irrelevant.
SF 1028 is described as finally having official cover art and released in 1973.
The third and final production for Sam Fox was released in 1973. FOr the first time it was dignified by a printed cover, in color! My friend and colleague David Peelle collaborated with me on this project. By this time there were hundreds of electronic-music studios, thousands of composers, and millions of MiniMoogs, so the competition was fierce. There were just a few brief uses reported by the ASCAP survey and Sam Fox.
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Very interesting info, Upgrade. Thanks for sharing this.
It confirms something I've thought for a long while about the U.S. library business, which seems to have been a bit loose about synchronization records. Not as diligent and regulated as it was in the U.K.
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Great insights.
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I am very late discovering this thread. Can anyone please re-up:
SF 1011
SF 1028
SF 2001
Thanks for your good help. :)
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I am very late discovering this thread. Can anyone please re-up:
SF 1011
SF 1028
SF 2001
Thanks for your good help. :)
Here is Andrew's rip of 1011 -- hxxps://mega.nz/#!gfoAmSIR!Q9w02qsXphoEp4BCpJgWy-XZPdLBMxicIFJpl5rBOCI
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Thank you, so much. I re-posted in Requests, for anyone else who might need these.
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I noticed that a8detective mentioned in the submission notes for SF 1010 that the Sam Fox listings could be dated using RCA master serial number codes.
discogs.com/release/2367759-Untitled/history#latest
An RCA pressing from Rockaway is apparently indicated by the small R in the matrix mentioned here. As far as I can tell from my Sam Fox issues at least the early ones have a small R.
discogs.com/label/461373-RCA-Records-Pressing-Plant-Rockaway
Going off of the mentioned link under the subheading of:
"III. 1963 - 1990's
Upon RCA's adoption of the infamous "Dynagroove" system for cutting records, they instituted their third and last revision of matrix number codes"
discogs.com/forum/thread/694503
Unfortunately, the Discogs submissions do not all have the matrix numbers for the main SF catalog though the images appear to have them printed under the RPM indicator. The last four digits are kind of arbitrary and seem to indicate the individual ID number for the each side's master.
0(Sam Fox Catalog No.) 1(Year Code), 2(Label Designation), 3(Size and Speed), 4(Groove)
SF1001 R 4RM - 4494 => 1964 Re-recorded from client's furnished tapes 12" - 33⅓ RPM Mono (Fine)
SF1002 R 4RM - 4909 => 1964 " "
SF1003 R R4M - 0226 => 1964 Transpose typo? " "
SF1004 R R4M - 4665 => 1964 " "
SF1005 R R4M - 5536 => 1964 " "
SF1006 CO 5999 (doesn't follow RCA convention?)
SF1007 S 4RM - 0530 => 1965 Re-recorded from client's furnished tapes 12" - 33⅓ RPM Mono (Fine)
SF1008 S 4RM - 6250 => 1965 " "
SF1009 S 4RM - 6411 => 1965 " "
SF1010 S 4RM - 9092 => 1965 " "
SF1011 T R4M - 1203 => 1966 Transpose typo? " "
SF1012 T R4M - 1664 => 1966 " "
SF1013
SF1014
SF1015 T R4M - 5940 => 1966 " "
SF1016 U 4RM - 8794 => 1967 Re-recorded from client's furnished tapes 12" - 33⅓ RPM Mono (Fine)
SF1017 W 4RM - 0274 => 1968 " "
SF1018 W 4RM - 1150 => 1968 " "
SF1019 W 4RM - 1901 => 1968 " "
SF1020 W 4RM - 2138 => 1968 " "
SF1021 X 4RM - 0751 => 1969 " "
SF1022 X 4RM - 0809 => 1969 " "
SF1023 X R4M - 1726 => 1969 Transpose typo? " "
SF1024 Z 4RS - 448-2 => 1970 Re-recorded from client's furnished tapes 12" - 33⅓ RPM Stereo
SF1025 Z 4RM - 1151 => 1970 " " Mono (Fine)
SF1026 B 4RS - 0051 => 1972 Re-recorded from client's furnished tapes 12" - 33⅓ RPM Stereo
SF1027 B 4RS - 0008 => 1972 " "
SF1028 CO 5493A (Printed date of 1973)
SF1029 CO 6134A (Printed date of 1973)
SF1030 (Printed date of 1974)
SF2001 W 4RM - 1645 => 1967 Re-recorded from client's furnished tapes 12" - 33⅓ RPM Mono (Fine)
SF2002 N O8P - 0910 (doesn't follow RCA convention?)
And a random Demeter for good measure.
D 17 T R4M - 1373 => 1966 Transpose typo? " "
A lot of the matrix numbers switch the second character matrix numbers 4RM to R4M. According to the discogs thread, "RCA Victor Master Serial Number Codes - 1942-1980's":
4RM would indicate "Re-recorded from client's furnished tapes" and "12" - 33⅓ RPM".
R4M latter indicates RCA Red Seal Release and nothing viable for a "4" as the third character.
It would be very strange that a number of Sam Fox releases would be associated with the celebrated RCA Victor Red Seal title. It could be a typo for the R4M or some style change which causes the letters to become swapped once a year?
Anecdotally, from the magneticmusic.ws/Frame.htm link above, there are dates for
SF1020 => 1968
SF1022 => 1968
SF1025 => 1970
SF1028 => 1973
These dates do match up with the RCA matrix codes except for SF1022 which is off by a year.
Checking by another method, I did directly find from SF1001 Loren Wilfong's "Colloquy For Bass And Bongos" registered in the 1964 edition of Catalog of Copyright Entries: Third series in Google Books. A spot check of other titles did not turn up any other entries from the Copyright Catalogs in Google Books though I haven't yet checked the actual US Copyright Office. Still the 1964 date agrees with the matrix for SF 1001.
Other thoughts:
I am missing a handful of catalog numbers, but it can be interpolated.
5 LPs a year from 1964-1966. One LP in 1967. Slowly dwindles from 4 to 2 a year from 1968-1973. 1971 is skipped entirely.
The Golden Group (SF2001) LPs seem to have been produced during the lean year in 1967 with SF1016. It fits with the lower bound of Retronic's Sam Fox catalog shown further up the thread.
SF1006 is an early outlier and seemingly not pressed at RCA.
Sam Fox seems to have stopped using RCA by 1973 and SF1028.
The RCA matrix dates could be extended to Sam Fox's other labels: Demeter, OK Music if the small R appears in the matrix.
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Great work! I'll add this to the label thread.
The same technique can be used to date most of Capitol's catalogue.
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Fantastic work, Upgrade!
The same technique can be used to date most of Capitol's catalogue.
Mr, please tell us more! I'd love to be able to add *actual* dates to all those Capitols (Hi-Q, Media Music, etc.), rather than simply guessing the decade (e.g. 196x, 197x, etc.)
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I noted this in the Hi-"Q" thread (https://librarymusicthemes.com/index.php?topic=222.msg25454#msg25454) recently; the records produced at Capitol Custom - you'll often find this branded on the releases themselves - have a matrix/runout system that includes an indication of date of production.
1956 = FB-
1957 = GB-
1958 = HB-
1959 = JB-
1960 = KB-
1961 = LB-
1962 = MB-
1963 = OB-/PB-
1964 = RB-
1965 = TB-
1966 = UB-
1967 = WB-
1968 = XB-
1969 = YB-
1970 = ZB-
The post-1970 LPs are unfortunately less informative, including most of Media Music, though it might be possible to identify these from contemporary sources. Same with Media Music the Professional, some dates of which I've identified from copyright paperwork:
MMSE-7 - Prime-Time-Contempo (1984)
MMSE-17 - Spectrum (1984)
MMSE-18 - Many Faces (1984)
MMSE-19 - Software (1984)
MMSE-20 - Energy (1984)
MMSE-21 - Framework (1984)
MMSE-25 - Dimensions (1984)
MMSE-26 - New Ways (1984)
MMSE-27 - Primetime (1984)
MMSE-28 - Simple & Solo (1984)
MMSE-29 - Main Stream (1984)
MMSE-30 - Two on One (1984)
MMSE-31 - Dynamo (1984)
MMSE-32 - Labor Force (1984)
MMSE-34 - Mind Impact (1984)
MSEE-4 - Versatility (1984)
PSE-1 - Total Vision (1985)
PSE-5 - Connections (1987)
PSE-15 - Operation Link (1986)
PSE-17 - Breakdance-Kids-Fun (1984)
PSE-21 - Targets (1987)
PSE-23 - First Choice (1986)
PSE-40 - Class & Dignity (1984)
PSE-43 - Focus (1985)
PSE-49 - Counterpoints (1986)
PSE-50 - First Business Class (1986)
PSE-53 - Telesis (1987)
PSE-54 - Sci-Tech (1987)
PSE-55 - Date Line (1987)
PSE-56 - Human Display (1987)
PSE-60 - Performance (1988)
PSE-61 - Rock Currents (1988)
... the chronology and order here makes about as much sense as you'd expect.
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That's helpful, Mr. Especially the Hi-Q pattern. Thanks.
But for MMSE-7 Primetime / Contempo, I have it as 1978... hmmm.
And MMSE-18 Many Faces and MMSE-19 Software as 1982...
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Uh... 78 sounds a bit early, but may be the release date of the original Media Music release. Do you know where you have these dates from?
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Uh... 78 sounds a bit early, but may be the release date of the original Media Music release. Do you know where you have these dates from?
Well, I don't really know to be honest… but some of the cover scans I have for these Capitols have handwritten notations on the back that indicate when particular cuts were used, etc. MMSE-1 (Today's Deluxe Sound), for example, has two cuts dated _1979_ (Nov. and Dec.). I have this LP catalogued as _1978_
Here are some my other datings for these MMSE releases:
1978
MMSE 01 – Special Edition 01 – Roger Webb – Today’s Deluxe Sound
MMSE 07 – Professional 18 – Roger Webb – Prime Time – Contempo
1979
MMSE 10 – Special Edition 10 – Roger Webb – New Visions
MMSE 11 – Special Edition 11 – Danny Hearn – Today And Tomorrow
1981
MMSE 13 – Professional 07 – Roger Webb – Sound Waves
1982
MMSE 17 – Professional 25 – Wolfgang Städele – Spectrum
MMSE 18 – Professional 26 – Bent Myggen – Many Faces
MMSE 19 – Professional 27 – Peter Vanderlohren – Software
MMSE 20 – Professional 28 – Wolfgang Städele – Energy
1983
MMSE 22 – Professional 32 – Richard Sterling – Events
MMSE 24 – Professional 14 – Wolfgang Städele – Trends
1984
MMSE 30 – Professional 36 – Peter Vanderlohren – Two On One
MMSE 31 – Professional 03 – Wolfgang Städele – Dynamo
MMSE 32 – Professional 37 – Lee Ashley – Labor Force
MMSE 33 – Professional 38 – Ole Georg – Satellite Travels
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Would anybody happen to still have "sf 1015 - syd dale - modern beat & period music with a beat" in flac they would be willing to share? I think that might have been posted long ago in flac but I can't seem to find it. Seems like a hard one to find.